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Let’s talk: Rogers unwraps RedBoard blog
March 2nd, 2010 a 11:02am
You’ve been talking about us.
We’ve been listening. And we’ve been learning about what you like – and don’t like – about our products and services and policies.
We’ve been finding our voice in these online conversations – joining in on discussion forums, leaving comments on blogs, answering your questions through the @RogersHelps Twitter account and telling you about the latest Rogers news through the @RogersBuzz account.
Today we’re excited to launch a new forum for these conversations. RedBoard will be a place where we can talk about our vision, explain our services and policies and geek out about the latest new technology. Our goal is to keep jargon to a minimum and to focus on providing useful information, interviews with decision makers and answers to your questions.
But this won’t work if it’s a monologue. The name RedBoard is a metaphor for whiteboards used for collaboration. We want to hear from you – the good feedback and the bad. The best way is to leave a comment on a relevant blog post. You can check out our comment policy here or find other ways to reach us on the Talk to Us page.
So what do you think? What would you like to hear about in a customer-focused Rogers blog?
Keith McArthur is Senior Director of Social Media at Rogers.
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Hi Redboard crew,
I’d like to receive an official response to the question of whether customers can run any reasonable third party equipment on the Rogers wireless network, much like they can plug anything into the “regular” internet or their phone line.
A secondary question, is the wireless quality of the HTC Android devices known to be inferior to the iPhone? I notice the wireless signal is constantly much less reliable than my wife’s iPhone in the same locations. As well, the GPS is often very inaccurate. Is my unit defective?
Thanks!
Hi David,
Thanks for taking the time to provide your comments. To answer your first question, we allow customers to bring devices onto our network but we can’t offer the same level of technical support to devices that aren’t set up for the Rogers network.
To your second point, I would suggest you contact Wireless Technical Support if you’re experiencing connectivity problems. However, it’s hard to compare a device’s signal quality based solely on the number of bars shown since the display varies by device. Still, it’s worth having a discussion with Tech Support about your issues as they would be your best resource to help trouble shoot.
Thanks RogersMary for your response around using third party devices on the Rogers network. It’s what I expected, but it does create some confusion around why difficult conditions are created for users wanting to upgrade their Rogers provided handsets (as opposed to those happy with the default), since more innovative and comprehensive versions are available from the community. But given these networks are based on standards, the response confirms a clearer way for consumers to select from a global selection of competitive devices that can be used with a Rogers data plan. I wish you guys the best engaging with your customers to create a great wireless Internet experience for everyone.
I have not noticed any issues with my HTC Dream Or HTC Magic. What operating system are you running? If you go into Settings, About Phone, you can see the true signal strength.
4r4nd0mninj4, thanks for the response. I am running the latest “post-911″ version and I’ve reset it several times. I think my device must be defective. My wife’s iPhone will often have completely loaded a web page before the Dream has even started, and sometimes it will time out at the same location. It’s very frustrating. If you’ve made similar comparisons and don’t see this problem, mine must be defective.
@ Davidm: I ran a version of the Stock Rogers post 911 ROM for a few weeks during the 911 data outage, and if you would like to shoot me an email, I would be happy to go over a few things with you.
So this is where I post Rogers FAILS? Like the upcoming release of the Samsung Galaxy Spica? Running android 1.5? Get with the times! This is last years phone ruining an outdated and no longer fully supported operating system. Even Android 1.6 is no longer being supported by some applications. Where is the Nexus One? Telus has the Moto Droid running 2.0, and you come out with the Spica? I guess Dick Cavett was right “As long as people will accept crap, it will be financially profitable to dispense it.”
I’m surprised, but pleased that Rogers approved comments like these that aren’t positive. +1 to Rogers for this
Not as surprised as I was…
We haven’t announced that we’ll carry the Samsung Galaxy Spica so I can’t comment on that. But, we do have a growing lineup of Android devices with 2.x Operating Systems. We’ve recently announced the Sony Ericsson X10 that will have an upgrade path to 2.x and Acer Liquid will debut with 2.1 this Spring. Also, our Rogers HTC Magic+ will be upgraded to 2.1 by mid-year.
Rogers has simply FAILED in many ways in understanding Android as a platform. Either they lack the capacity or willingness to understand Android as a platform. As you stated this has been proven on many occassion, including the upcoming devices still running an archaic version of the platform, moreover the lack of acknowledgement of features removed from the post-911 update and above all the statement made by RogersMary that the HTC Dream (G1) cannot support 1.6 because of memory limitations, when the exact same device in the US has been updated (PROOF) !!!!
Rogers does seem to be moving heavily into the social media sphere now, which is great to see. This does have the potential to result in a better product and happier customers. However, as a point of constructive criticism, this only becomes valuable to the customer if they actually see changes made as a result of their comments.
As Rogers customer I only have two issues with your internet service, but they are big ones. Your throttling practices are needlessly aggressive, and penalties for exceeding the bandwidth caps have become excessive at $50.
I can understand the need to control congestion and have people pay in proportion to the bandwidth they use. But 24/7 throttling of certain traffic regardless of congestion, and caps that considerably limit the use of any online video sources (including Rogers Online Video On Demand, XBOX live movie downloads) are just unacceptable.
I realize these can’t be changed overnight, and it’s unlikely that you want to undercut your own video services. But it should be known that many people would switch to a slower service from another provider in a heartbeat if it were less restrictive. The only reason that’s not happening now is because the only options are Bell and Rogers in most areas, both of which have similar restrictions.
To keep me as a customer once you are faced with real competition in this area (which is about to happen), I’d hope you would proactively change these policies, rather than adjusting them only after more attractive providers are in the market.
I might rethink my purchase of an AppleTV if Rogers is going to throttle it…
I agree, Eric.
While I agree that the $50 excess charge is high, Rogers does offer a better selection of internet options than Bell. Do the comparision and you will see what I mean. You can easily have a faster service with more bandwidth for less money with Rogers than with other providers.
Also, Rogers only ‘throttles’ upstream that I have noticed. For 95% of users this is a lot better than practices by other providers.
Rogers service is certainly perfect but it is a lot better than what others are offering, IIMHO.
Thanks for the thoughtful comment Eric. Our policies are designed to provide our customers with good value and fast, reliable service. We know, for example, that the vast majority of customers do not go over their usage caps. At the same time, we know that customer behaviours are changing and our policies will evolve over time as well.
“Our policies are designed to provide our customers with good value and fast, reliable service.”
With due respect, this is untrue. What is “fast” or “reliable” about randomly dropping upstream packets as soon as any P2P or bittorrent traffic is detected 24/7, regardless of congestion?
My connection is capable of 3.1MB/s down and 800KB/s up (Extreme Plus). As soon as your DPI equipment detects traffic it doesn’t like, my connection drops to 300KB/s down and 70KB/s up and normal web surfing is impossible. For comparison, that’s less that a 5Mbit DSL connection.
I could excuse throttling if it only occurred when congestion was detected, that would be a policy designed to ensure “good value and fast, reliable service”.
I could maybe even accept if it was just blindly applied during a certain portion of the day (like Bell).
But degrading traffic you don’t like 24/7 is unjustifiable. Even when Rogers was testifying before the CRTC they could not come up with a better explanation for this behavior than “because we want to”.
I’m generally happy with Rogers service for many reasons. If you were to provide a $10-15 a month option on every package which disabled the throttling and doubled the cap, I’d happily pay it and sing your praises everywhere I went. Make it $20, I don’t care.
There is a sizable portion of the market that wants this sort of service and is willing to pay for it, just give us that opportunity and we’ll take it. You’d put the DSL wholesalers out of business overnight.
Thanks for feedback Eric. We think we’re making the right decisions for our customers on issues like network management and caps, but we could probably do a better job of explaining these policies – perhaps in future blog posts.
This blog will be great – provided it’s not all promotional posts, and that the authors actually respond to concerns. If it’s just a big PR stunt then this is just going to be another junk blog to ignore.
What I’d like to see are posts about topics customers actually care about. For example, the recent mandatory update debacle. Post about it, and let users comment, and then actually respond to there comments as a human, not as a PR front. Then it will be something useful.
I will keep an eye out. Hopefully this is a positive thing an renews my faith in Rogers.
Thanks Anthony. Appreciate you taking the time to share the kind of posts you’d like to see on the blog.
The Android update is exactly the kind of thing we would have written about in the blog. @RogersMary was engaging in Android blogs and forums to help get the information out but if we’d had our blog up and running we would certainly have discussed here.
“We think we’re making the right decisions for our customers on issues like network management and caps.”
This is very much in line with the same verbage being used around the Android 1.5 upgrade whereby Rogers stated “We think that Android 1.5 provides an exceptional experience for customers”. What Rogers needs to stop doing is making decisions for customers and actually listening to customers. Until this happens, your efforts are in vain.
While I will congratulate you on increasing our online presence (I also would like to thank RogersMary for all the help throughout the Rogers Android growing pains) Rogers needs to do a LOT more to address the new line up of Android phones, and your failure to properly understand just what Android is and how it works.
In the event Mary hasn’t passed along my web site to you, check it out at http://www.iwantmyonepointsix.com/ It’s all about the Rogers Android experience, or lack thereof.
By the way, why launch the Sony Ericsson Xperia X10 with Android 1.6 when I can get a Motorola Milestone with 2.0 on Telus? Don’t you understand it’s about the OS and apps? I don’t care how cool or shiny the phone is. The “look” and the UI are irrelevant if I can use the latest and greatest apps because they require the NEWEST version of Android, which you aren’t offering.
Hi Michael. Thanks for your comment! And yes, you can be sure that I have shared your blog with our internal team :) We’re really excited about having a new venue for conversation with our customers. I hope you’ll return often.
We are committed to the Android community and have been listening to your feedback. The Sony Ericson X10 will have an upgrade path to 2.x. Also, we’ve announced that the Acer Liquid will debut with 2.1 this Spring. As you know, Magic+ will be upgraded to 2.1 by mid-year.
It’s still quite unclear why users need to be dependant on Rogers to upgrade handsets, when the community can provide high quality, supported, newer versions of these operating systems.
It seems like a win win in line with your efforts. Sell us the hardware as part of a contract, or let us buy it on the open market, and as provided by the most competitive, leading edge, open resources out there anyone can upgrade as they desire. But I’m stuck on 1.5 on my “Dream” (with keyboard), upgrading before 36 months (!!!) through Rogers would be heinous if you even had any decent options (SE X10, maybe, if it’s an Android, not proprietary device). Imagine if your PC were so limited. And mobile devices could be a lot more innovative than PCs.
Mary, thanks for the response. As far as the X10 is concerned, I know that SE has declared repeatedly that their _UI_ (the UXP UI) is capable of “evolving” to _2.0_ (Their words, not mine), but no one has yet said that it will specifically be updated for _Rogers_ owners of the X10.
Will you, or someone else at Rogers, please confirm that _Rogers_ X10 owners will get Android 2.0? There is a difference as we already have seen how the same phone on different carriers in different markets gets different updates.
My concern is that SE has told Rogers that the X10 can “Evolve” to 2.0, but that no one at SE has ever actually agreed that _Rogers_ would get that update. Kind of like the whole HTC thing. ;-)
Also, it should be pointed out that SE have themselves said that “evolving” their UI to Android 2.1 is a bit “beyond them” (again, their words not mine) which means apps requiring Android 2.1 or higher won’t work on the X10 when it eventually gets 2.0.
BTW: A forum might work better for conversing with customers than a long stream of comments to a bog post where they can easily get lost. :-)
Absolutely! I can happily confirm that the Sony Ericsson X10 will be upgraded to 2.x, for Rogers.
Is there a straightforward way for us to easily upgrade from the disappointingly un-”open,” “revolution” Dreams which are daily missing out on more Android features, without “breaking our contract” (which we’re not) and paying numerous fees? Or should we just buy it from a third party company where it won’t be “optimized for Rogers” ?
Also, can we please have a profile link on this site so we can find all our postings.
new question – just how much influence does your group have in the over all corporate structure? if the standard response is going to be “we’ll pass it on…” well then this will be a waste of a time for everyone here.
alo how much technical knowledge does your team posses?
i’m also waiting for a response on why you’re using misleading (and downright insulting) tactics in your advertisements, i.e. implying twisted pair copper is inferior for home ‘net connections.
Don’t forget the most Misleading line in the advertisments
“Canada’s Reliable Network”
Hi again Paresh. As you will see from our latest post, Rogers does listen and incorporate customer feedback. It’s not really about how much influence the social media group has – it’s about the fact that we do care about getting the experience right for our customers:
http://redboard.rogers.com/2010/we-listened-how-to-customize-the-order-of-the-quick-start-menu/
I wouldn’t say I’m a technical expert, but we can bring in the experts when we need to – either to provide us with the answers or to engage directly with customers on the blog.
As for your last comment, I didn’t think we’d referred to the type of wire used in our advertising so hard to respond.
I am simply shocked by what rogers is behaving as a internet service provider:
http://www.dslreports.com/forum/r23595675-Max-over-charges-DOUBLING-to-50-in-March-for-all-tiers~start=20
I understand that your network is not perfect (that’s another issue) but 90 gb per month is almost no bandwidth.
Other ISP’s offer 200 gb/ month or unlimited for noticeably cheaper. I stayed with rogers, but I see more and more reasons to leave.
Max,
Could you point in the direction of an ISP who will give me 25mbps down and 125GB per month for less than $70?
Unless you are prolific downloader or watch mega amounts of streaming videos then 90GB is plenty, IMHO.
What I love about my Rogers Internet is that they say I will get 25mbps down and guess what….thats what I get! I cannot say the same for service from some other ISPs.
@IainR
I am not going to go into lengths of describing why different people need more or less bandwidth, but in my opinion, if 90GB is enough for you, then you either live alone, or you simply do not need that much downstream (consider a cheaper tier, perhaps?).
As of examples of successful ISPs that do not make money off bandwidth, Consider what is going on south of the border, FIOS is unlimited, Comcast got slammed for trying to impose bandwidth restrictions by the FCC.
Read what boingboing says about the canadian ISPs:
http://boingboing.net/2009/06/08/michael-geist-explai.html
Comcast and FCC decision:
http://news.cnet.com/8301-13578_3-10004508-38.html
Or read this blog:
http://stopthecap.com/
Thanks for feedback Max. As we’ve said in response to other comments on the blog, the vast majority of customers do not go over their caps. And we have made significant improvements in download speeds for three-quarters of our customers, including a three-fold increase for customers on the Lite service.
That’s true, I’m sure a large portion of users only use a fraction of their bandwidth. I think my parents use about 2-4GB a month.
But I don’t think people object entirely to the idea of a cap, only that the cost for exceeding it be reasonable. Almost doubling the cost of the connection is not reasonable. There should be a fair option for those who do require more bandwidth.
If I want to buy a 1000 minute cell phone plan, I can do that. But I can’t buy a 200GB internet cap, or pay extra for an unthrottled connection. There is no option for that.
This is especially surprising considering that bandwidth at the head end is virtually free, and if there are so few people exceeding their usage, accommodating them shouldn’t be an issue.
Keith, the download speed do not help anyone but the marketing team, 10 mbps or 25 mbps, users will just hit their download limit faster, more money for rogers?
Hey why aren’t the new Blackberry 9700 and 9000 Talk Spot campatable with Rogers? only the Edge BB’s ie 9700, 8520. T-Mobile’s 9700 has talk spot. Lets face it…. Talk Spot kicks ass. I have coverage way up north by James Bay, along with other remote communities with no celluar coverage. I know alot of people out there love it and want it to stay. We just want better BB’s or selection of phones. I personally had to return the 9000 due to no Talk Spot. Too bad though I really liked the speed of it as well as the size. Well keep us posted please.
Hi Shane. TalkSpot is a UMA product and therefore not compatible with the Rogers Blackberry 9000 or 9700.
As a Rogers Wireless, Cable and Home Phone customer, I want to hear about upcoming products and services. Instead of the “We don’t comment about future plans” I want to know what your working on. When a competitor releases a service I want(e.g. PVR iPhone App) I want to know Rogers is working on a similar product, so I don’t feel the urge to switch providers.
I get where you’re coming from – as a customer it would be great to know what’s coming from Rogers. But there can be various reasons why we can’t talk about upcoming products and services. Sometimes our technology partners (eg. handset manufacturers) want to be the first to talk about a new device. It’s also important to us that we get the newest technology to our customers first, which often means keeping things under wraps until we’re ready to launch.
Kudos to Rogers for creating this site..only time will tell if it makes a real difference and benefits consumers. For starters, I’d like to comment on your wireless service.
When will Rogers realize and admit there’s a big problem with their 3G network? Constant dropped calls, call failures, and 3G service dropping down to 2G at random. There’s clearly a huge capacity issue on the Rogers Wireless network. If there’s a large event (like the U2 concert last September), you can forget about any kind of wireless service if you’re with Rogers..and that concert was held at the “Rogers” Centre!..how ironic!
How does Rogers explain Bell and Telus building and launching a national HSPA+ network that’s clearly larger and much more stable in about a year?? Rogers has been building theirs for over 3 years and it still needs A LOT of work. How can Rogers consistently advertise to operate Canada’s “reliable” wireless network when that’s clearly not the case? Please Rogers, invest in fixing your network to make your advertisements truthful.
Hey Paul. I don’t want to comment on our competitors’ networks, but it’s difficult to compare an unproven network with few customers to one that is already being used by millions.
Your experience with the 3G network in Toronto is different from mine (I was at the same U2 concert at Rogers Centre and had great connectivity) so it might be worth reaching out to technical support to make sure it’s not an issue with your device.
I do appreciate you visiting the blog and leaving your thoughts here.
I remember on Canada day 2008 in down town Victoria, it was impossible to make a call on Rogers network for about half an hour after the fireworks ended. This was experienced by myself and three of my friends. I guess the network was not setup to handle call volumes of that size.
Let’s see if you’re really willing to let Canadians express what they truly feel about Rogers.
We’re willing to post the bad with the good here Keith.
One of the rules for your site says:
“We will not post a comment that:
* Is known to be false, fraudulent, deceptive, inaccurate or misleading”
Care to explaing the “government regulatory recovery fee”? Please feel free to tell us what that fee has to do with the government.
You can find all the details here:
http://www.rogers.com/web/content/grrf
We’ve been transparent that this is not a tax or fee that the government requires us to charge. Rather, it’s a fee applied to help fund fees, costs and other amounts related to federal, provincial and/or municipal mandates, programs and requirements.
I can’t help but feel like this is a cash grab. Last I checked, federal and municipal mandates and requirements is called “The Cost of Doing Business” Rogers has 1 million+ subscribers at $4 a pop… that’s a whole lot of fees you are recouping yearly on our dollar.
Also would you care to explain the “Activation Fee?” $35 to start up service? Give me a break…..
Sorry Keith but it is not the responsibility of the customer to pay into your cost of doing business.
Either raise your prices and deal with the backlash, or get rid of the fee all together.
Government Regulatory Recovery Fee sounds official enough to be a fee that most consumers won’t question, and this is why they pay it month after month.
I think that the way the mandatory 911 rollout happened was deplorable. The fact that it was used to disable the ability of people to upgrade their phones really disappointed me. I have 3 HTC Dreams(one of which I am typing this on) and I was happy to sit and wait for Rogers to upgrade to the latest operating system. All of our phones are and were stock. Then I find out that no update is coming. The other phone that was available during the “Revolution” is getting the upgrade, but the cool one with the sliding keyboard that I love wasn’t getting the upgrade. It seemed very arbitrary.
I will applaud you for the free upgrade to the Majic, but I didn’t know about it until the deal was over. Posting something like that only on your website was not good as I did not spend a lot of time on your site prior to that. I keep going back every couple of days to see if you are going to repeat the deal as I would like the new features that are available.
I know that other people have complained about your customer service, but I bragged to my coworkers about the service I received after the sale. The call from customer service before the end of the free unlimited internet period to warn me ans check my useage was very welcome. It was the exqact opposite of the experience that my coworker on Bell had.
I do think that the cell phone customers need to treat the cellular network the same way as internet. Ie Rogers is just a conduit and should not care about the exact configuration of the operating system. Phones should not be sim locked either.
With the competition that is hopefully coming with the changes in ownership announced today, I would hope that the incumbents use it as a wakeup call to give Canadians the seevice the deserve, not what they have been expecting.
I hope that this forum is used to constructively improve Rogers.
Steve
And let’s not forget that _ALL_ phones in the US, including the HTC G1 (which is the Dream here) will be getting Android 2.1 in one form or another.
Rogers and HTC tried to tell us that the Dream couldn’t handle 2.1 (or even 1.6 apparently) but we know that isn’t true. The real reason we aren’t getting 2.1 for the Dream in Canada is most likely because the ROM was customized for Rogers, and any subsequent OS update would also need to be customized.
Tell Rogers you want “Vanilla Android”! Custom UIs might look slick, but they make it less likely you will get updates.
Also, Rogers doesn’t need to customize the ROM to get their PR material onto our phones. Do what T-Mobile did, hire a few Devs and have them create some actually useful Rogers-branded _apps_. Have them preinstalled on the phone (which has nothing to do with customizing the ROM) and you get your PR, while we get our updates! Win – Win.
A quick clarification to my previous post, at the moment the news that all phones, including the G1, are getting 2.1 has yet to be properly confirmed. It has been reported on the Android & Me blog. While it has not be corroborated yet, many are standing behind the author.
However, even if the G1 does NOT get 2.1, we KNOW that it has Android 1.6. Given that the memory of the G1 one is the SAME as the Dream, it is untrue to say that the Dream can’t support updates beyond 1.5 because of memory. I would suggest that maybe the real problem is _Sense UI_, and not Android 1.6 OS.
Rogers and HTC need to straighten this out and be hon3est with us if they want our trust about these things. It isn’t enough to say that they can not comment on US phones. Rogers told us it was a memory issue, but if it’s a matter of 1.5 vs 1.6 we know this is flat out not true. The memory of the two phones is the same.
Hi Michael. We can only test and certify OS updates that are provided to us by HTC. As far as the information we have received, HTC indicated that they could only offer a 1.5 update for the Dream because the device did not have the required on-board memory for an upgrade.
This is a reply to Mary’s reply (I can’t seem to reply to her’s directly).
Mary, you say “We can only test and certify OS updates that are provided to us by HTC. As far as the information we have received, HTC indicated that they could only offer a 1.5 update for the Dream because the device did not have the required on-board memory for an upgrade.”
This is an example of why people are accusing Rogers of being disingenuous with this “RedBoard” and the canned “PR speak”. Great, you can’t test other OS, the problem is, it makes it sound like Rogers is either unfortunately obtuse, or willfully obtuse.
Fact: The G1 and the Dream have the SAME amount of memory. This is confirmed on HTC’s web site.
Fact: The G1 in the US has Android 1.6
Fact: You tell us the Dream can’t have 1.6 because HTC says there is not enough memory.
You don’t need to be able to test US OSes to see the logical inconsistency with Rogers’ continued refusal to acknowledge the discrepancy, and that’s why people a. don’t trust Rogers, and b. are upset about the way Rogers is treating Android.
If the G1 and the Dream have the same memory 9and they do), and the G1 has Android 1.6, then it follows logically that the Dream CAN support 1.6.
Again, I believe the difference is _Sense UI_. It is entirely possible that the Dream can not support 1.6 with _Sense UI_.
Instead of continuing to tell us that the sun goes round the earth despite what people elsewhere have determined to be true, please go and ask HTC to clarify and give us the TRUTH! :-)
Hi Steve. Customer safety is our highest priority and we take this matter very seriously. The Rogers HTC Dream and Magic bug fix was rolled out to ensure 911 calls could complete from those devices. In terms of the OS, we pushed HTC for updates and they agreed to release a 2.1 OS upgrade for the Magic but could only offer a 1.5 update for the Dream because we were informed that the device did not have the required on-board memory for an upgrade. The Magic to Dream upgrade promotion was a limited time opportunity for Dream customers who wanted to have the same HTC Android experience as those who purchased the Magic. It was put on hold while we rolled out the bug fix but was reestablished and expired on February 14.
Sorry Mary.
If safety was the first priority, you would have told people about it when you learned about the 911 bug, not 4 months later. If you had fixed the bug without removing the ability to root the phone, I’d believe you. I think that some suit decided that phones should be tightly locked down. My Dream is not a phone. It is my computer. You don’t lock down the machines connected to your internet, you shouldn’t lock the machines connected to your cell net.
I had a choice when I bought the 3 Dreams. Get those or the iphone. Had both of them in my hand deciding. The reason I chose the Android was because it was open sourced and I wouldn’t have to deal with Apple telling me what I could or could not put on my phone.
Little did I realize that Rogers was as bad as Apple.
I think that experience tells me that Rogers really isn’t committed to Android. Android is all about the open experience, non-locked phones and being able to do things without interference. If you want to lock things up like this, then Drop the Android and just sell Windows Mobile handsets.
(BTW, don’t take any of this personally, I know that you are only allowed to repeat certain phrases)
Thanks Steve, we do appreciate the continued dialogue and I hope to be able to address some of your points in a future blog post. But just to be clear, the bug you’re referring to above was on a different device running on a different network.
In response to Mary, unless Rogers knows something they want to share with us now, then I’m afraid Mary is wrong.
It was the SAME bug. Call 911 (on an E911 service) with GPS enabled and the phone might crash and reboot. Google fixed it in Sept 2009, HTC and T-Mobile pushed it out to their customers Oct 1 2009 as part of the Android 1.6 upgrade.
They are not different phones. The G1 _is_ the Dream. The MyTouch is the Magic, but will less memory. The only difference was the _software_ which was customized by HTC for Rogers. The 911 bug was, however, the same bug.
@Mary: If you are going to keep telling people that these are different phones and different issues, you will continue to have a credibility problem because we _know_ that you are wrong.
http://www.iwantmyonepointsix.com/?p=140
you wanna know sumtin. I was told by a very good source that if there was no 911 problem. The dream and the magic would be stuck wollowing in 1.5 os for the rest of its existence here in canada on rogers!
Mary the bug was not on a different device running on a different network, it was in Android 1.5 which Google fixed thereafter. Other carriers, such as TMobile provided an update for their devices to 1.6 which also fixed the bug.
In the end, what it boils down to is that Rogers knew about the 911 bug 4 months before, did not do anything actionable at the time. However under the hyde of Sense UI slipped the fix to 911 bug in the hopes that by marketing the “cool” factor of Sense UI the 911 Bug patch and knowledge thereof would go into some void and never be brought up.
As Mulder says, “The truth is out there”, if Rogers doesn’t want to acknowledge the truth you’ll just have to keep on creating holes in your stories over and over and over again….
Well I guess I was a bit too critical about the Rogers 3G service, so my first post never made it on here! Anyway, I’d really love to know if there are any realistic and specific plans to truly fix, stabalize, and expand the Rogers 3G wireless service?..especially now that your other big competitors operate an HSPA+ network. I feel 3G is not nearly as solid or reliable as your 2G network, which I’ve never had a problem with in my 8+ years being a Rogers Wireless customer. Please be specific..I’ve heard the old “we’re constantly working to improve our network” phrase way too many times. Thanks!
Hey Paul. We’ve posted your comment above – and I’ve responded to it there. As per our comments policy, we’re publishing comments as quickly as we can, but could take up to one full business day to post.
What about offering some really competitive data plans for your wireless service? Wind Mobile’s cheapest plan is $35 for unlimited data, which might be a bit too steep for people not really needing unlimited. What about 1GB for $15 that includes tethering?…now that would really give Rogers an edge over it’s competitors and align them with many other providers overseas.
OK, I don’t want to come off sounding like a corporate shill here, but I really don’t think this board is the place for people to complain about pricing. Yeah, I’d like $15 for 1 GB. Or how about Rogers pays *me* for my using their network? That’s an even better deal!
Rogers will drop their prices when they feel that it is in their best interests to do so, and not a moment earlier. In this respect, they are no different than any other business out there, or even any private individual selling a bike on Kijiji. It is a waste of our time and theirs to have long discussions about their pricing vs their competitors’, since they likely have a separate group of people whose job it is to keep abreast of what Bell, Telus, Wind, etc are doing.
The complaints about service, about the HTC issues, about the network itself, etc, are probably exactly what Rogers needs to hear; let’s not lose that focus by complaining about things that only market forces will change.
Where do you suggest comments on pricing should be directed?
Unlike some one selling a bike on Kijiji, Rogers is selling a service which is essential to the very fabric of this country. That sound too artsy? Consider:
-broadband: the internet is no longer a curiosity but a means of conducting commerce, communicating, and entertaining. To be without puts you at a serious disadvantage with the rest of the world. The full potential of the net has yet to be realized.
-cell phones: they can be vital in an emergency and they’re a tool for business. with a growing number of people eschewing landlines for cell phones they’re an absolute necessity to keep in touch.
-television: it informs and entertains. when CTV says over 80% of the entire country was watching the gold medal hockey game, cable & satellite providers was there to provide the signals to unite us.
In light of these points absolutely Canadians should demand fair pricing for these services, and this blog is one means to get that point across.
Rogers, and its very few competitors, have been given extraordinary control of the market. Our bandwidth, which is a national resource, is sold to companies like Rogers on the assumption that they will service Canadians. So no, this is absolutely not the same as selling a used bike online.
We can only hope that the recent Throne Speech will open the doors to much needed foreign investment and competition. We’ve been deprived for far too long.
Paul, you’re right that many consumers will overpay with unlimited plans. Thanks for suggestion of the plan you’d like to see!
Problem is if you subscribe to a minimal plan, the one month you need to go over you’re going to get gouged big time. And do we really want to count bytes? So many people play safe and go for the ‘unlimited’ plan. Automatic graduated pricing would be nice.
davidm, I understand what you’re saying. However, if over 90% of users barely reach 1GB in any given month (especially on a BB), then having these plans & making the price of them more attractive is key. If the going rate for unlimited data on other wireless carriers around the globe (provided that users also subscribe to a voice plan) is generally in the $30 – $40 per month range, then $15 for 1GB is not unreasonable. I think Rogers would see an increase in data subscribers and push those “I’m not so sure I need data, especially $25 for only 500MB” users to subscribe without hesitation.
Oh, and please please please Rogers…keep tethering included on all data plans..let’s not introduce yet another additional fee for that feature :)
Paul, the simple answer is graduated pricing. $20 for the first 500MB, $25 for the first GB, $35 for 2GB, etc. Fido offered a plan like this. This would be the most consumer friendly move, without unexpected charges. It would be understandable if after a certain limit the price started going up again to discourage really heavy users.
i’m a brand-new rogers customer, and i bought an HTC dream because i love everything about that little phone, especially the slide-out keyboard. yay, android, a great OS! and i could upgrade right along with google’s upgrades, stay on the curve, even if Rogers were to decide not to upgrade. i was very conscious of those factors, and they did decide my purchase.
and now you’ve screwed me sideways with the 911 “upgrade”. i haven’t yet upgraded (which basically gives my smartphone a lobotomy for now) because i am hoping somebody in the community will come up with a work-around, or that you will relent. as it is, i am not inclined to remain your customer because you’re seriously handicapping my use of my device AND you’re not offering me an official upgrade (for which i generally would be willing to wait a couple of months).
like SteveK above, i believe the cell phone industry needs to change its hidebound ways and adjust to the era of the internet where people are becoming more technology-wise and less inclined to accept restrictive services. and you know? i want to be loyal to companies. i don’t go with the cheapest fly-by-night competitor. but the company to which i become loyal is open and honest with me, it doesn’t pretend it is concerned with my safety above all when what it really wants is to restrict me from walking outside the corporate-approved lines.
try that, and we might yet salvage this relationship. good luck with your blog. i appreciate that it’s not easy to be a customer service representative in the face of a growly public. i know you don’t make policy. but please convey my serious dislike of this policy to somebody who could do something about it. better yet, give me a name so i can write a letter to underline this complaint.
Hi pir. We highly recommend customers download this mandatory bug fix for Rogers HTC Magic and Dream customers to ensure 911 calls can be completed from these devices. This is a matter of customer safety, which is our highest priority.
yes, i know you highly recommend it; the 5000 text messages telling me about this MANDATORY UPGRADE gave that away, *wry grin*.
i am also not an idiot. my safety is MY business, and i take care of it, better than any company could — case in point: the 911 bug could have endangered me had i not known about it 4 months ago. i realize many people need handholding when it comes to technology, but i — and many others — do not. this goes beyond this single issue. there is a tendency among some hi-tech companies to treat their users like lost little lambs, because their experiences with customers who complain are dominated by those who need to be told to check whether their device is plugged in.
that treatment really chafes those of us who are comfortable with technology. we are a minority, i know, but it really doesn’t cost a company much extra to accomodate us, because we’re usually happy with some raw features that we can shape ourselves. we run linux, and know how to upgrade android ourselves IF we are given that opportunity. or heck, we’re happy with a waiver that lets us opt out of lost little lamb treatment.
please communicate that to your higher-ups. the bottom-line isn’t going to be seriously affected by being more user-friendly towards people who embrace new technology, and we’d sing your praises.
I would agree to the point that the 911 waver was slow to come into effect, and even slower to actuality work for some people (in my case it took weeks for it to accept my IMEI number). But it is there now and we can opt out of the 911 update, and run non-Rogers ROM’s if we so chose. The ball was dropped, it bounced up and smacked Rogers in the face, but at least they caught it on the way back down. Now it is up to the Android comunity to find a way of r00ting the phones that did get upgraded. I know it would go far with a lot of people if Rogers released a down-grade option for the 911 update for those who sign the waver. (hint, hint)
Will Rogers be offering new PVR options in the near future? The current Scientific Atlanta/Cisco models are falling well behind what other providers offer.
Related to that, is there any chance of supporting Cablecard so that those of us who want to can use Windows Media Center PVRs?
Another question: why is it that it is impossible for me to get SMS notifications from the Rogers email-to-SMS gateway turned off? I don’t subscribe to that feature and would not subscribe to it given that I have an iPhone with native access to my email. The idea of using an SMS-to-email gateway seems quite pointless given that. And yet when I call CS to complain, I’m told there is no way to disable it.
For smartphone users, this feature is simply an annoyance.
So if you get an email, you also get a text message with the contents of said email? You’re right, that is rather pointless on a smartphone.
Almost but not quite. The email-to-SMS gateway works on phone number-based email addresses (something like 4165551234@pcs.rogers.com). It’s a way for people with non-email-capable phones to get messages from people stuck at their desks. But on a smartphone, I would never use that; I would just use my normal email addresses.
So why am I getting SMS messages that tell me that I am not subscribed to the email-to-SMS feature, particularly when the only emails that COULD be going into that address would have to be spam?
Hi David. There is a way to block messages from a specific send or unsubscribe to the service.
To unsubscribe:
Send the command “unsubscribe” (without quotations) as a text message to “0000000000″ (10 zeros)
There is a list of commands on Rogers.com under Text Messaging/ Fun with text/ Email to Text.
Hope this helps!
Mary, thanks for your reply. I’ve already not subscribed to this service. What I want to block are the messages that I get whenever someone attempts to use what would be my number@pcs.rogers.com address, presumably from spam.
When that happens, I get a message telling me that there is a message but I need to subscribe to see it.
Again, I don’t want to use this service, ever – it makes NO sense on a smartphone where I have access to real email – and I want the gateway to simply ignore emails sent to my number@pcs.rogers.com address without sending me an alert. Is this possible?
I’ve tried the “unsubscribe” and “number off” commands in that list you referred to, but it keeps telling me I’m not subscribed.
When you receive a message on your phone saying “You have a message, but are not subscribed; would you like to subscribe?” answer back “No”. The system will never again ask if you would like to subscribe.
“Its also important to us that we get the newest technology to our customers first” – Ya that’s great and all, if you ACTUALLY do it. Rogers has been late to the party more often then not so that is really a mute point.
Jordan,
I think if you look at the facts, you’ll find that Rogers has consistently been first to market with new devices and network innovations, from being the first Canadian carrier to launch iPhones and Android phones to being first in North America to launch wireless internet connectivity at speeds of up to 21 Mbps.
You know it’s always UP TO, and FIRST TO.
I have yet to hit 21MBPS ON MY HOME INTERNET CONNECTION let alone a wireless one.
You were the first to bring ANDROID 1.5 because by the time you launched the devices, 1.6 was already common in any other country.
Sorry Keith. Those are also facts.
I just want to say that this blog is a good idea ! I have a question about Android for the LG Eve. Do you know when the next version or update will be available ?
Hi Chantal. Glad to hear you like our blog :-) We expect that LG will be releasing an upgrade to Android 1.6 OS for the LG Eve this Spring.